.

Our Thoughts on Discontinued Models

 



Unvarnished opinions of Flagstaff's older pop-up models (mostly in the event someone is shopping for a used camper and wants to know our views on said camper)

Wouldn't it be nice if every store/dealership gave you their honest opinion about their products instead of the usual sales pitch? We think so. So here it is:

We break down Flagstaff's models into three categories. The first batch were all-around great campers that worked well for almost everybody but for one reason or another they still met their demise. The second list contains campers that were more specialized in their features and fit the needs of a smaller group of people. The last column includes campers that fit a particular niche but contain at least one design issue that left us scratching our heads and not surprised that they were discontinued.

Also available: Our Thoughts on Current Models

If you read this list straight-through you'll find some repetitive information for similar models or similar features. Sorry about that, but since somebody might jump directly to a particular model and not read all of this we don't want them to be lost and have to back-track. Thanks for reading!

All Around Great Campers

This is a great layout. The galley has lots of floor space for meal prep or clean-up. The "J dinette" can seat 5 or 6 people but doesn't block the rear bunk the way a full end-dinette would. The storage trunk provides a nice bit of extra storage. Plus the whole package only weighs 1867 lbs.

Sales decreased greatly with the introduction of the 206STSE; the 206ST just couldn't keep up with the bigger tires and cool gray color scheme of it's Sports Enthusiast cousin.

All of the great features of the 228 with a nifty "bike hauler" storage deck on the front. The bike hauler can be used for--quite fittingly--hauling bikes but it's also a great place to put a generator, firewood, bulk storage totes, a toolbox, and chairs.

The 228BH is another victim of the Sports Enthusiast Series. The 228BHSE just looks cooler with its bigger tires and gray color scheme.

Flagstaff redesigned the 823D in 2017 resulting in a three-bed redundancy (it closely apes the 425D). Prior to 2017 the 823D was one of our best sellers because it was the only Classic model with four large beds and no interior shower/cassette toilet. The resulting gap in Classic models prompted us to special-order a non-toilet version of the 625D called the "825D".

The 823D's original "our thoughts" text: Through the years the 823D is a consistent best-seller. The wrap-around dinette and slide-out dinette provide comfy seating areas--when combined with the end beds the 823D has the largest amount of bed square footage of any Flagstaff camping trailer. The only drawback to the wrap-around dinette is that you have to go over it to get to the rear bunk, but in some cases leaving the table off to the side and using that dinette as a couch alleviates that issue.

The is the T12RBST with 15" wheels, mud-tires, and a 6" main frame--like a Back Road edition of the T12RBST. It weighs 130 lbs. more than the T12RBST.

The T12RBSOR lives on virtually unchanged (except for the gray color scheme) as the T12RBSSE.

This is essentially the same floorplan as the T12RB but the rear bunk is now a wrap-around dinette. Since they both make into the same size beds It's a trade-off, really, between having an extra seating area in the T12DDST and having a spring mattress in the T12RB (and T12BH). FYI: The front storage trunk is cavernous.

The High Wall T-Series effectively cannibalized sales from the low-wall T-series campers. The T12DDST is just the latest discontinuation of the low-wall line.

Campers with a more specialized purpose

The 227 is essentially the 208's older brother--the wrap-around dinette is larger (it's the largest dinette outside of the T-Series) and with the extra two feet of box space the other dinette is able to be placed on the side instead of across the end. The benefit is unobstructed access to the rear bunk; the drawback to the side-oriented dinette is the size: only 64" long, and the fact that anyone working at the sink or stove would have their hind-end towards anyone sitting in the 64" dinette. The front wrap-around dinette is comfy but you have to go over the dinette to get to the front bunk. the 227 is a nice model but the two inconveniences with the dinette layout keeps it from the "great" column.

We're not sure why this was discontinued but it's possible the small dinette and wobbly pedestal table may have finally caught up with this model.

Great floorplan, great features, but the interior shower/cassette is not to everybody's liking. Sometimes a Porta-Pottie that's not bolted in is a better alternative (and can be taken outside during the day, like out to the bushes or at least into a screen-room or other enclosure, and brought in at night). The non-shower version of the 228BH offers a hot water package option that includes an exterior shower which might be a good compromise.

The regular MAC campers that were duplicated by the Sports Enthusiast Series all fell victim to the SE campers having better curb appeal. The 228BHSE with shower just looked cooler (and had bigger tires).

This is a big camper with lots of features. It makes this list, though, because of the interior shower/cassette toilet and the configuration of the slide-out dinette. The interior shower/cassette toilet is standard in the 246D (the factory can special-build a camper without a cassette toilet when the blueprints call for one, but for general purposes the 246D always has a shower/toilet) and takes up a big block of space. Wrap-around dinettes are nice if they are a camper's second dinette. If it is the only dinette in a camper the wrap-around style is rather inefficient (for more, please see Not All Dinettes Are Created Equal). Overall this is a nice floorplan if you like the shower/toilet idea.

The 246D may have been too big for its own good. Most people looking for a 14' tent camper look to the Classic series for the extra space and features. The 246D just couldn't compete.

The interior is almost identical to the HW27SC except the double-axle of the 31 alters the door placement slightly. Also, the rear bunk has a king-size bed (it's the only Flagstaff pop-up with two 70" x 80" beds). The main feature that sets the HW31SCTH apart is the 8 1/2' metal "toy hauler" deck on the front. It is the only High Wall with a storage deck so that part is great for toys, a grill, toolbox, generator, etc. Its massive size places it in the "More Specialized" category; at 3676 lbs. dry it requires a pretty hefty tow vehicle.

It's possible this huge camper succumbed to its own largesse; in doing so it seemed to be trying to accomplish too much. It's difficult road from a production model to a special-order model to being discontinued, back to a production model, and then returning to retirement argues that maybe sometimes bigger isn't necessarily better.

This is the T12RB interior with a 4 1/2' toy-hauling storage deck on the front. It also has the Sports Enthusiast series' 15" wheels, mud-tires and 6" main frame. It's a great layout but the big deck on front is not for everybody and puts this model on the "specialized" list.

This model lives on in the Sports Enthusiast T-series with the "eloquently" named T12RBTHSE.

Campers That Fit A Certain Niche

The 205 "Bottleneck Edition" is the only 10' Flagstaff with an interior shower/cassette toilet. For anybody who wants a light camper but must have an interior shower or toilet this is your model. However, the compromises necessary to fit an interior shower into a 10' box put the 205 on the "niche" list:

1. The dinette is only 64" long and is partially blocked by a wheel well cover that protrudes into the dinette's leg area.

2. The storage area under the galley is taken up by the water heater, water pump, and water filter--the only viable storage space in this camper is under the two dinette seats and in one pull-out utensil drawer.

3. The fridge is separated from the rest of the galley--not a very good work triangle. The lack of storage cannot be overstated. We strongly encourage anyone considering the 205 to see if the 228 with shower might be an acceptable alternative (the 228 with shower weighs 320 lbs more--2050 lbs dry).

Update 11-17: Flagstaff switched the cassette toilet/shower combo and the cabinet in the front corner such that toilet/shower is in the front corner. This helps alleviate some of the "work triangle" problem detailed in #3 above, but it's not enough to get the 205 off the "niche" list.

The model page for the reconfigured 205 is here: The "Better" 205

The idea is to have a 10' box with two separate seating areas plus a walkway that goes from end to end. In theory this is good but in practice the 207 has some issues:

1. The dinette is only a 64-incher and the wheel well cover takes up a lot of space in the dinette's leg area. The sofa is 62" long. When folded into beds anybody taller than 5' 2" has a problem.

2. Because the seating areas are at diagonal ends of the camper the galley is split into diagonal corners as well; the fridge is on the opposite corner from the sink and stove. If two people are sitting on the couch and somebody else is trying to cook dinner and needs something from the fridge then one person on the couch must angle their legs to make a path through that bottleneck.

If the gaucho is needed as a bed (for people shorter than 5' 2") the bottleneck problem becomes even worse. Now anybody going from the back bed, dinette, or galley area to the front bed, fridge, or door have to step over the gaucho bed. I suppose this layout would work with one or two people but it seems like a hassle for larger groups. If two separate seating areas is the goal the 208 does a much better job.

No tears were shed around here when the 207 was discontinued. This was an absurd floorplan that could have been easily fixed by flipping the galley to the front and the couch to the back. However, if a tiny dinette and tiny couch that make into two tiny beds and a kitchen triangle that would make many cooks cry is appealing, the layout can still be had with the 207SE.

This is Flagstaff's first High Wall T-Series. Like High Wall tent campers this model has a 4.0 cu. ft. fridge, a double-pan sink, and stove/oven combo. Unlike the HW tent campers the toilet area is a shower/cassette toilet with a soft curtain only (not a residential style toilet with hard walls). The A/C with heat coil, microwave, hot water system, stereo, dual propane tanks, and electric brakes remain the same (as with all T-Series campers).

This model is on the "Niche" list because with all those nice amenities inside the camper there is very little room left for storage. For example, it's nice to have an oven, but there's barely room for a baking dish in which to use said oven. It would be better if Flagstaff had left out the shower/cassette toilet, relied on the exterior shower and a portable toilet instead, and used the space where the cassette sits for storage and counter space. On the plus side there is a large storage trunk in the front that would help with certain storage issues.

The angled front roof piece holding a shower curtain with thin velcro strips left a lot to be desired. The T21DMHW provided a more appealing solution to the cassette toilet/shower issue (and providing more space), sounding the death knell for the T19SCHW.

Back to Buyer's Guide

Back to Articles & Tutorials

Top of Page