Our Thoughts on Discontinued Models
Unvarnished opinions of Flagstaff's older pop-up models (in the event someone is shopping for a used camper and wants to know our views on said camper)
Wouldn't it be nice if every store/dealership gave you their honest opinion about their products instead of the usual sales pitch? We think so. So here it is:
We break down Flagstaff's models into three categories. The first batch were all-around great campers that worked well for almost everybody but for one reason or another they still met their demise. The second list contains campers that were more specialized in their features and fit the needs of a smaller group of people. The last column includes campers that fit a particular niche but contain at least one design issue that left us scratching our heads and, frankly, not surprised that they were discontinued.
Also available: Our Thoughts on Current Models
Note: If you read this list straight-through you'll find some repetitive information for similar models or similar features. Sorry for the repetition, but since somebody might jump directly to a particular model and not read all of this we don't want them to be lost and have to back-track. Thanks for reading!
All Around Great Campers
Similar to the 206LTD but with a front storage trunk and in the MAC series. The full walkway from front to back is nice, as is the storage space and counter space. The galley has good space to work in. All around a great camper and a nice alternative to its Sports Enthusiast cousin, the 206STSE.
The nice counter-top and cabinet space in the door-side rear corner was replaced by a gaucho/bed for the 2024 model year. It can be found here: 206M with gaucho.
This is a great layout. The galley has lots of floor space for meal prep or clean-up. The "J dinette" can seat 5 or 6 people but doesn't block the rear bunk the way a full end-dinette would. The storage trunk provides a nice bit of extra storage. Plus the whole package only weighs 1867 lbs.
Sales decreased greatly with the introduction of the 206STSE; the 206ST just couldn't keep up with the bigger tires and cool gray color scheme of it's Sports Enthusiast cousin.
The 228 is the latest victim of the Sports Enthusiast series' popularity. The 228 has the same interior layout as the 228BHSE but the 228BHSE's bike hauler and big wheels made it the more popular model and the 228's sales fell behind.
Here's the original "our thoughts text":
The 228 gets our vote for the best 12' model Flagstaff makes. It's light (compared to most of the 12' boxes), has lots of seating and sleeping space, and the galley area has plenty of floor space. A table leaf extends the table area to people sitting on the couch so the dinette area could conceivably hold 7 people. The couch also provides a nice area to sit and relax without having to slide into a dinette.
Compared to the 10' boxes' 48" and 60" (Queen) end beds, the 12' boxes have longer beds by a foot in the back (Queen bed) and by 10" in the front (70" total, or what we call a "Camper King").
All of the great features of the 228 with a nifty "bike hauler" storage deck on the front. The bike hauler can be used for--quite fittingly--hauling bikes but it's also a great place to put a generator, firewood, bulk storage totes, a toolbox, and chairs.
The 228BH is another victim of the Sports Enthusiast Series. The 228BHSE just looks cooler with its bigger tires and gray color scheme.
228BHSE
(with no interior shower)
This is the excellent 228 interior with a 2' bike hauler exterior and the Sports Enthusiast package (including big 15" wheels, a roof rack, stereo, and the cool color scheme exclusive to the SE series). This is the best combination of space, storage, back-road capability, and ease-of-use (compared to the larger SE campers with a slide-out dinette and shower that add complexity to the system).
In 2024 the interior shower/cassette toilet combo that was optional on this model became standard. So, we now differentiate between this 228BHSE with no interior shower and the 2024 228BHSE (with interior shower standard).
New in 2021, this was the successor to the 228. Whilte all of the changes between the two are listed here, the LTD version stood nicely on its own. Queen-sized beds on both ends helps with larger groups. The dinette and gaucho together also helps larger groups at meal time. Plenty of floor space. It was also the lightest 12' camper.
After this model's demise, the smallest 12' camper was the 228D, which has a slide-out dinette. Not eveybody sees the benefit of a slide-out dinette (because it's not really a benefit), and the 228D weighs over 400 pounds more than the 228LTD. This leaves a significant gap in the lineup for those who need two big beds on the ends but don't want the hassle of a slide-out dinette or the 2500 pounds that come with the 228D. But, alas, this is America, and the slide-out dinette looks cool and is "bigger"--therefore "better".
The 823D is a casualty of the long-lived Classic Series being discontinued after 2019.
Flagstaff redesigned the 823D in 2017 resulting in a three-bed redundancy (it closely apes the 425D). Prior to 2017 the 823D was one of our best sellers because it was the only Classic model with four large beds and no interior shower/cassette toilet. The resulting gap in Classic models prompted us to special-order a non-toilet version of the 625D called the "825D".
The 823D's original "our thoughts" text: Through the years the 823D is a consistent best-seller. The wrap-around dinette and slide-out dinette provide comfy seating areas--when combined with the end beds the 823D has the largest amount of bed square footage of any Flagstaff camping trailer. The only drawback to the wrap-around dinette is that you have to go over it to get to the rear bunk, but in some cases leaving the table off to the side and using that dinette as a couch alleviates that issue.
The 825D is a casualty of the Classic Series being discontinued after 2019. Great idea, but short lived.
The 825D's original "our thoughts" text: The 825D is simply the 625D without the interior shower/cassette toilet. We asked Forest River to special-build this for us so there would be a Classic with four beds and no interior shower/cassette toilet (this role used to be filled by the four-bed 823D, but Flagstaff reconfigured the 823D in 2017 to have only three beds). The 825D also allows four beds without having to crawl over an end table.
One minor drawback this model could not avoid is the "sofa-placement-in-relation-to-the-galley" issue, discussed briefly in our 625D thoughts 
, but since it's the only way for us to get a Classic with four beds and no interior shower/toilet, we'll take the compromise.
The T12BH has the same interior as the T12RB and adds a front "bike hauler" storage trunk. The bike hauler is useful for bikes, naturally, but it's also perfect for holding a generator, firewood, chairs, a tool box, big plastic totes, etc.
The main drawback to this model is the addition of a dormer in 2017. We're not excited about the extra weight, set-up steps, or $$ the dormer entails, especially given the mere 6' 1" clearance it provides.
The T12BHSE was discontinued as part of the Sports Enthusiast T-Series' overall cancellation after 2019.
The T12BHSE's original "our thoughts" text: The T12BH has the same interior as the T12RB and adds a front "bike hauler" storage trunk and the Sports Enthusiast 15" wheels and higher clearance. The bike hauler is useful for bikes, naturally, but it's also perfect for holding a generator, firewood, chairs, a tool box, big plastic totes, etc.
One minor drawback to this model is the addition of a dormer in 2017. We're not excited about the extra weight, set-up steps, or $$ the dormer entails, especially given the mere 6' 1" clearance it provides. Admittedly, though, the extra head space in the dinette area is nice.
This is essentially the same floorplan as the T12RB but the rear bunk is now a wrap-around dinette. Since they both make into the same size beds It's a trade-off, really, between having an extra seating area in the T12DDST and having a spring mattress in the T12RB (and T12BH). FYI: The front storage trunk is cavernous.
The High Wall T-Series effectively cannibalized sales from the low-wall T-series campers. The T12DDST is just the latest discontinuation of the low-wall line.
The excellent T12RB--one of the original T-Series models introduced in 2011--was discontinued in 2021, which is a shame since it's the only 12' T-series left without a storage trunk.
The T12RB's original "our thoughts" text: This is a nice floorplan in a relatively small package (12' box). The front dinette is big and easily hold four adults while the rear bunk offers a spring mattress. And if you haven't been inside a T-Series yet, we recommend checking one out--they have a completely different feel to them than a tent trailer. One drawback to the T-Series in general is the lack of headroom at the ends of the camper.
The is the T12RBST with 15" wheels, mud-tires, and a 6" main frame--like a Back Road edition of the T12RBST. It weighs 130 lbs. more than the T12RBST.
The T12RBSOR lives on virtually unchanged (except for the gray color scheme) as the T12RBSSE.
The T12RBSSE was discontinued as part of the Sports Enthusiast T-Series' overall cancellation after 2019.
The T12RBSSE's original "our thoughts" text: The is the T12RBST with 15" wheels, mud-tires, and a 6" main frame--a Sports Enthusiast edition of the T12RBST. It weighs 130 lbs. more than the T12RBST.
The T-series dormer effectively ended the T21QBHW because it didn't have one; a dormer, that is. Here's the original "our thought" text:
Flagstaff's first 14' T-series. It's also a High Wall so the countertops are at a much more agreeable height than the low-wall T-series. The T21QBHW has room for a double-pan sink, an oven/stove combo, and the 4.0 cu. ft. fridge found in all High Wall models. It also has a queen bed in the back and a 50" x 80" front dinette. It takes the best of the T-series and the best of the High Wall features.
The only drawback we see to this model is the length. With the storage trunk on front the frame is 16' long; with tongue and bumper the entire camper is exactly 21' long.
The T21TBHWSE was discontinued as part of the Sports Enthusiast T-Series' overall cancellation after 2019.
The T21TBHWSE's original "our thoughts" text: This model--new in 2018--takes the T21TBHW and fixes the cassette toilet problem in that the T21TBHWSE does not have a cassette toilet. Instead this model has a regular dinette that folds into a 50" wide bed with a portable toilet under the seat.It retains the T21TBHW's twin bed/king bed conversion feature and adds the Sports Enthusiast Series' gray body, raised frame, and 15" mud tires.
Campers with a more specialized purpose
The 227 is essentially the 208's older brother--the wrap-around dinette is larger (it's the largest dinette outside of the T-Series) and with the extra two feet of box space the other dinette is able to be placed on the side instead of across the end. The benefit is unobstructed access to the rear bunk; the drawback to the side-oriented dinette is the size: only 64" long, and the fact that anyone working at the sink or stove would have their hind-end towards anyone sitting in the 64" dinette. The front wrap-around dinette is comfy but you have to go over the dinette to get to the front bunk. the 227 is a nice model but the two inconveniences with the dinette layout keeps it from the "great" column.
We're not sure why this was discontinued but it's possible the small dinette and wobbly pedestal table may have finally caught up with this model.
The 228 (and 228 with shower option) was discontinued in 2019. Flagstaff graciously agreed to make the 228 without the interior shower for us but the interior shower version is no longer possible. The closest comparable model with an interior shower is the slightly larger Sports Enthusiast Series 228BHSE with shower or the MAC series 228D with shower.
The 228 with shower's original "our thoughts" text: The 228 itself is a great floorplan but the shower version goes on the "more specific use" list because the interior shower is not for everybody. It takes up a large block of space and cuts into some of the gallery floor space the 228 without shower has. We understand the interior shower is a valuable feature to some people but we prefer the shower (and especially the toilet) to be left outside. Speaking of, the 228 (without interior shower) is available with an exterior shower in the hot water package--that may be a good compromise if you're on the fence about the shower issue.
Great floorplan, great features, but the interior shower/cassette is not to everybody's liking. Sometimes a Porta-Pottie that's not bolted in is a better alternative (and can be taken outside during the day, like out to the bushes or at least into a screen-room or other enclosure, and brought in at night). The non-shower version of the 228BH offers a hot water package option that includes an exterior shower which might be a good compromise.
The regular MAC campers that were duplicated by the Sports Enthusiast Series all fell victim to the SE campers having better curb appeal. The 228BHSE with shower just looked cooler (and had bigger tires).
The 28TSCSE is another victim of Covid production problems, where configuring the factory to handle the huge frame proved too time comsuming. Flagstaff steamlined their camper line-up and the over-sized 28TSCSE didn't make the cut. Here's the original "our thoughts" text:
The 28TSCSE has almost all the same features as the 23SCSE but the deck on the front is 8 1/2' long instead of 4 1/2', has two axles instead of one, and has a 72" long dinette. It's nice that this Sports Enthusiast model has the appropriate size dinette but the interior shower/cassette toilet and the toy hauling deck on the front make this a "more specialized use" camper. Other than these two features that may not be useful to some folks, the design and layout of the 28TSCSE is well thought out.
This is a big camper with lots of features. It makes this list, though, because of the interior shower/cassette toilet and the configuration of the slide-out dinette. The interior shower/cassette toilet is standard in the 246D (the factory can special-build a camper without a cassette toilet when the blueprints call for one, but for general purposes the 246D always has a shower/toilet) and takes up a big block of space. Wrap-around dinettes are nice if they are a camper's second dinette. If it is the only dinette in a camper the wrap-around style is rather inefficient (for more, please see Not All Dinettes Are Created Equal). Overall this is a nice floorplan if you like the shower/toilet idea.
The 246D may have been too big for its own good. Most people looking for a 14' tent camper look to the Classic series for the extra space and features. The 246D just couldn't compete.
The 425D was technically discontinued with the Classic Series being discontinued after 2019. The same layout and most of the same features live on in the MAC version called the 425M.
The 1999-2016 823D was in the "All-Around Great" section because it had four large beds and no interior shower/cassette toilet. The 2017 redesign exchanged the rear bed for a front seat (like the 425D) and a baggage door leading to a 110V-only cube fridge. While that may be handy for tailgating it means there are now two very similar models (425D & 823D) with only three beds but no four-bed/no interior shower model. As a result we asked Flagstaff to special-build the 825D for us.
The 625D is a casualty of the Classic Series being discontinued after 2019.
The 625D's original "our thoughts" text: The 625D is a great-looking camper with a lot of features, lots of sleeping and seating room, and a slide-out dinette that provides a spacious interior. Before the High Wall series was introduced this was Flagstaff's top of the line. Two reasons it's on this list and not the "All Around" list:
1. The interior shower/cassette toilet is not for everybody.
2. The sofa placement means that if somebody is working at the galley (sink & stove) their backside is going to be right in the face of anybody sitting on the sofa (and at a particularly unfortunate eye-level, too). No, sorry, we cannot provide a diagram for illustrative purposes...
The 627D was technically discontinued with the Classic Series being discontinued after 2019. The same layout and most of the same features live on in the MAC version called the 627M (not anymore; see below)
The 627M was discontinued during the Covid purge. It's not that the 627M wasn't popular, but some hard cuts had to be made, and this was the result. Here's the original "our thoughts" text:
As the largest MAC camper the 627M certainly has a lot of space to stretch out. However, it also has an interior shower/cassette toilet (which may not appeal to everybody) as well as an abbreviated sofa/bed that is only 62" long. If four beds suited for taller people are required, this model comes up... short.
The outside-access fridge is an interesting idea but the fridge is 110V only (not a 3-way fridge like the interior fridge) and we're curious how many of those little cube fridges will end up in the garage or someone's college-age kids' dorm room and that space used for extra storage instead.
For reasons passing understanding the HW27SC was discontinued in 2019 while the silly HW27KS and conspicuously large HW29SC live on. We stress function over form and the HW27SC was the most functional* High Wall tent camper for those seeking a High Wall tent camper. We believe bigger is not necessarily better, but that may not be the majority opinion.
*"Most functional" being a relative term for overkill High Wall tent campers in general.
Here is the HW27SC's original "our thoughts" text: The High Wall campers are packed with near-travel-trailer amenities and are quite luxurious for camping trailers but there's a few issues to keep in mind: the camper (when folded down) is higher than the view from a rear-view mirror of almost all tow vehicles (including our full-size trucks) so the traditional tent camper benefit of being able to see out the back window is no longer and you have to rely on your side mirrors, and the sidewall of the camper is a full foot taller than base pop-up sidewalls and the "feel" inside the camper is different than low-wall campers.
We recommend checking the High Wall campers out in person to make sure you like the feel of it.
The interior is almost identical to the HW27SC except the double-axle of the 31 alters the door placement slightly. Also, the rear bunk has a king-size bed (it's the only Flagstaff pop-up with two 70" x 80" beds). The main feature that sets the HW31SCTH apart is the 8 1/2' metal "toy hauler" deck on the front. It is the only High Wall with a storage deck so that part is great for toys, a grill, toolbox, generator, etc. Its massive size places it in the "More Specialized" category; at 3676 lbs. dry it requires a pretty hefty tow vehicle.
It's possible this huge camper succumbed to its own largesse; in doing so it seemed to be trying to accomplish too much. It's difficult road from a production model to a special-order model to being discontinued, back to a production model, and then returning to retirement argues that maybe sometimes bigger isn't necessarily better.
The T12RBTH is one of those campers that looks great at the trailer show, but was never a best-seller. It ends up as another discontinuation that came too early due to Covid production problems. Here's the original "our thoughts" text:
This is the T12RB interior with a 4 1/2' toy-hauling storage deck on the front. It's a great layout but the big deck on front is not for everybody and puts this model on the "specialized" list.
The T21TBHWSE was discontinued as part of the Sports Enthusiast T-Series' overall cancellation after 2019.
The T21TBHWSE's original "our thoughts" text: This is the T12RB interior with a 4 1/2' toy-hauling storage deck on the front. It also has the Sports Enthusiast series' 15" wheels, mud-tires, 6" main frame, and gray exterior. It's a great layout but the big deck on front is not for everybody and puts this model on the "specialized" list. (Side note: the model number is a bit silly; "T12RBTHSE" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.)
This 12' High Wall T-Series features a queen-sized bed (the "QB" in T19QBHW) and a front dinette. Being a High Wall, it has a larger 4.0 cu. ft. fridge but due to space constraints (in order to fit a 60" wide queen bed inside) the typical High Wall oven/stove combo is missing. In its place is a smaller stove as well as a small, single-pan sink. The microwave cabinet is smaller, too, so the microwave now faces the entry-way, not into the cabin like in other T-Series campers. The attempt to fit a queen bed in a T-Series is admirable but the loss of other High Wall features for a mere 6" gain on the bed width leaves this camper on the "specialized" list.
That being said, not everybody needs an oven when they go camping anyway; in which case this model may be perfect. Also, many people prefer the higher countertops in the High Wall T-series campers (in comparison to the low-wall T-series campers).
The newest T-series camper features a "front kitchen" that provides the most storage area of any T-series. Our usual trepidation towards the small dinette and extra weight of the dormer system persists, but if we overlook those two aspects this is a pretty nice layout. The front kitchen solves a lot of the counter space and storage issues that haunt the T-series in general. The small dinette makes this (probably) better for two people, but overall it's a nice looking model.
This is the same layout at the T21QBHW except with a sofa/bed in the front instead of a dinette and with a dormer on the front. It's on the "More Specialized" list because the sofa eliminates the dinette and while the sofa maya be good for two people, the dinette was good for four people plus a large table. The T21FSHW has a small table for the sofa, but then the benefit of the sofa (extra floor space, ease of sitting down as opposed to sliding into a dinette seat) is partially negated by working around the table.
This model may be great for two people but it seems less functional for groups of even three or four.
Also, this model has a front dormer. We're not excited about the extra weight, set-up steps, or $$ the dormer entails, especially given the modest 6' 4 " clearance it provides but with the placement of the sofa/bed, it's required or else people sitting on the sofa would hit their head on the ceiling panel. The dormer does provide a room-ier feel to the camper and a glass front window, too.
Campers That Fit A Certain Niche
This is the Sports Enthusiast version of the 176LTD with a minor twist: the dinette has been reconfigured in "L" formation to eliminate the 176LTD's wheel-well problem. However, to make the dinette accessible from the galley (sink) side, Flagstaff shortened the table into a bistro-style 18" x 20" platter. It could be argued that a camper is mostly a place to sleep and a tiny table doesn't matter, but if it rains and a meal needs to happen inside the 176SE, that table could be a problem. Playing board games on that table may also prove difficult. Adding a separate camp table or portable table may help with this issue, but it's still a hassle.
The dinette pulls out to make a bed, but it loses an inch to the already-small 176LTD dinette/bed. At 63" long the 176SE has the shortest dinette/bed of any Flagstaff pop-up.
The 205 "Bottleneck Edition" is the only 10' Flagstaff with an interior shower/cassette toilet. For anybody who wants a light camper but must have an interior shower or toilet this is your model. However, the compromises necessary to fit an interior shower into a 10' box put the 205 on the "niche" list:
1. The dinette is only 64" long and is partially blocked by a wheel well cover that protrudes into the dinette's leg area.
2. The storage area under the galley is taken up by the water heater, water pump, and water filter--the only viable storage space in this camper is under the two dinette seats and in one pull-out utensil drawer.
3. The fridge is separated from the rest of the galley--not a very good work triangle. The lack of storage cannot be overstated. We strongly encourage anyone considering the 205 to see if the 228 with shower might be an acceptable alternative (the 228 with shower weighs 320 lbs more--2050 lbs dry).
Update 11-17: Flagstaff switched the cassette toilet/shower combo and the cabinet in the front corner such that toilet/shower is in the front corner. This helps alleviate some of the "work triangle" problem detailed in #3 above, but it's not enough to get the 205 off the "niche" list.
The model page for the reconfigured 205 is here: The "Better" 205
The 205 is the only 10' Flagstaff with an interior shower/cassette toilet. For anybody who wants a light camper but must have an interior shower or toilet this is your model. However, the compromises necessary to fit an interior shower into a 10' box place the 205 solidly on the "niche" list:
1. The dinette is only 64" long and is partially blocked by a wheel well cover that protrudes into the dinette's leg area.
2. The storage area under the galley is taken up by the water heater, water pump, and water filter--the only viable storage space in this camper is under the two dinette seats and in one pull-out utensil drawer. The lack of storage cannot be overstated.
3. The fridge is separated from the rest of the galley--not a very good work triangle.
The next step up if an interior shower/toilet is a must is the 228D with shower in the MAC Series or the 228BHSE with shower in the Sports Enthusiast Series.
The idea is to have a 10' box with two separate seating areas plus a walkway that goes from end to end. In theory this is good but in practice the 207 has some issues:
1. The dinette is only a 64-incher and the wheel well cover takes up a lot of space in the dinette's leg area. The sofa is 62" long. When folded into beds anybody taller than 5' 2" has a problem.
2. Because the seating areas are at diagonal ends of the camper the galley is split into diagonal corners as well; the fridge is on the opposite corner from the sink and stove. If two people are sitting on the couch and somebody else is trying to cook dinner and needs something from the fridge then one person on the couch must angle their legs to make a path through that bottleneck.
If the gaucho is needed as a bed (for people shorter than 5' 2") the bottleneck problem becomes even worse. Now anybody going from the back bed, dinette, or galley area to the front bed, fridge, or door have to step over the gaucho bed. I suppose this layout would work with one or two people but it seems like a hassle for larger groups. If two separate seating areas is the goal the 208 does a much better job.
No tears were shed around here when the 207 was discontinued. This was an absurd floorplan that could have been easily fixed by flipping the galley to the front and the couch to the back. However, if a tiny dinette and tiny couch that make into two tiny beds and a kitchen triangle that would make many cooks cry is appealing, the layout can still be had with the 207SE.
This is Flagstaff's first High Wall T-Series. Like High Wall tent campers this model has a 4.0 cu. ft. fridge, a double-pan sink, and stove/oven combo. Unlike the HW tent campers the toilet area is a shower/cassette toilet with a soft curtain only (not a residential style toilet with hard walls). The A/C with heat coil, microwave, hot water system, stereo, dual propane tanks, and electric brakes remain the same (as with all T-Series campers).
This model is on the "Niche" list because with all those nice amenities inside the camper there is very little room left for storage. For example, it's nice to have an oven, but there's barely room for a baking dish in which to use said oven. It would be better if Flagstaff had left out the shower/cassette toilet, relied on the exterior shower and a portable toilet instead, and used the space where the cassette sits for storage and counter space. On the plus side there is a large storage trunk in the front that would help with certain storage issues.
The angled front roof piece holding a shower curtain with thin velcro strips left a lot to be desired. The T21DMHW provided a more appealing solution to the cassette toilet/shower issue (and providing more space), sounding the death knell for the T19SCHW.
Back to Buyer's Guide
Privacy © 2009-2024 Roberts Sales. All rights reserved.